Matt Harvey
We knew going into this season the Mets that Matt Harvey was going to be on an innings limit. Recently, the reports have been that the Mets have been informed that Harvey shouldn’t go over 180 innings.
After last night’s win, Harvey sits at 166.1 innings meaning he has 18.2 innings remaining. That’s roughly the equivalent of three six inning starts. Not counting October, it appears Harvey has three starts remaining in the regular season. This assumes a six man rotation and the Mets announced plans to skip another start. At least, the skipped start won’t be against the Nationals. Therefore, it seems that Harvey will finish within his limits.
Now, these are the things you can do when you have a 6.5 game lead with a weak schedule. This is a luxury you have when Matt Williams is derailing the Nationals season. My issue is what would have happened if the Nationals were closer in the standings. Better yet, what will happen if the National sweep the Mets next week and make it a race?
Do the Mets still need to skip Harvey’s start? They have really painted themselves in a corner. They didn’t need to be in this situation.
The Mets could have started Harvey later in the season, but the Mets wouldn’t have missed out on the increased attendance and financial boon. Keep in mind, the Mets set their rotation to pitch Harvey on the second home game instead of Opening Day at Citi Field. It was a business rather than a baseball move.
Also, there were ample opportunities all year to skip Harvey. Looking over his starts, he’s pitched consistently well all year with the exception of a somewhat rough stretch from May 23rd to June 10th. On these two days, he allowed seven earned runs. In the other two starts, he pitched fairly well. However, with the rough stretch, it might’ve been a good time for a breather. It should also be noted that after this stretch, he was lights out.
Furthermore, there were chances for Harvey to pitch less innings in a number of starts. However, I will say this is not one area we should focus on too much. Harvey is averaging 6.2 innings per start. I think we can all agree you don’t want a starter going less than six innings. If Harvey was limited to only 6 innings per start, that would’ve only saved him 16.1 innings or two plus starts.
I acknowledge it’s a delicate balance. You want to stretch Harvey out. He’s a horse. You want to ride him for seven plus innings. Plus, his performance this year has merited him going deep into games. I have no problem with him going 166.1 innings (or 6.2 innings per start) in his starts.
The Mets have good team doctor. It may not seem that way because they don’t always follow medical advice or even seek it out. However, when you do receive it, you need to follow that advice. The Mets didn’t with their most valuable asset.
I’m not saying the Mets should shut down Harvey like the Nationals did with Steven Strasburg. I would also point out the Cardinals treated Adam Wainwright different than the Nationals did after Wainwright’s Tommy John surgery. After Wainwright’s 2011 surgery, he pitched 198.0 regular season innings with an additional 15.0 postseason innings. That’s 213 innings or 33 innings more than what Harvey’s doctors recommend.
The next two years Wainwright was an All Star pitching 241.2 and 227.0 innings respectively. He finished second and third in Cy Young voting respectively. It should be noted he had a balky elbow in 2014, and he needed offseason surgery on the elbow to clean up cartilage, which may or may not be related to the Tommy John surgery. My presumption is it isn’t, but that’s conjecture, not fact. We do know Wainwright’s season ending injury this year is unrelated.
So what was the right call? Do you pitch him all year like Wainwright? Do you limit his innings like Strasburg? Both of these pitchers have had injuries since, but it’s not like the subsequent injuries were necessarily related to their Tommy John surgeries.
What we do know is even with the six man rotations and missed starts, the minute Harvey takes the mound in October, he’s definitely passing his innings limits. Every individual and pitcher is different. Every plan for dealing with post-Tommy John surgery is different. It’s amazing with all of the surgeries we’ve seen there is still no clear cut rehabilitation plan.
That’s part of the problem with Harvey. There’s no plan or road map. Let’s just keep our fingers crossed that this plan is elite correct one. There’s a lot riding on it.
That’s how you respond to a bad loss. Your ace gets on the mound and starts dealing. Then your offense explodes with every starter getting a hit. By the time the Phillies knew what happened the game was over.
The tone was set when Matt Harvey started the game by striking out the side in the first. We used to talk about Harvey as a stopper. A start to the game like this shows those old stopper credentials. Sure, it wasn’t a terrific start overall, but he would keep the Phillies at bay to secure the victory. Overall, he would go 6.1 IP, 9 H, 1 BB, 9 K, and 4 ER.
The game seemed over by the third inning. In the second inning, Kelly Johnson opened the scoring by doubling home Daniel Murphy. Johnson would score on Ruben Tejada‘s inside the park home run putting the Mets up 3-0. The home run was the result of Domonic Brown flipping over the short RF side wall and suffering a concussion. In the third Murphy would hit an RBI double , and he would score on another opposite field homerun by Michael Conforto. At the end of three, the Mets lead 6-0.
The Mets did have a couple of pieces of bad news today. First, Wilmer Flores‘ grandfather is ailing. Flores flew to Venezuela to be with him. I hope everything will be alright, and I have his family in my prayers.
The second piece of bad news was that Murphy was forced to leave the game with a quad injury. With Lucas Duda still on the DL, this will probably press Michael Cuddyer into everyday 1B duties. If this is a bad injury, like the one Murphy suffered earlier this year, he will be out for a while. That’s a shame because it was great seeing him in a pennant race again.
There was also two bizarre plays. Ironically, the first occurred when Eric Young, Jr. pinch ran for Conforto. Like Monday night, EY had the base stolen until EY came off the base. There was no replay needed this time. The second bizarre play happened when the Phillies were threatening in the seventh. That’s when Odubel Herrera ran way out of the baseline onto the grass to avoid a rage from Johnson. He was ruled out for running out of the baseline, and when Johnson threw to first, the double play was complete.
It should also be noted that Yoenis Cespedes giveth and he taketh. He’s prone to the bone-headed play. Tonight, he got thrown out at third with two outs ending a rally in the sixth. However, he would come back in the eighth and mash a homerun. It’s a night where you can see why this is his fourth team in one calendar year. It’s also a night where you question why anyone would give up on him.
Overall, the night belonged to Tejada who went 2-4 with a run scored, four RBI, and that inside the park homerun. It was nice to see him and the Mets respond well tonight. It was a good 8-4 win.
Personally, I don’t like it when people tell me not to boo someone. I’m not specifically telling you not to boo Bobby Parnell. It’s your right, and he’s been bad. He’s 1-3 with a 6.52 ERA. There’s a lot of things you want to say to that, but this is a family friendly blog.
Before I continue, it should be noted I was never a fan of Parnell. His fastball is straight, and he was in love with it. He had the attitude that he blew it past hitters in the minors, so it should work in the majors. As you can see, my defense of him has nothing to do with performance.
I defend him because Parnell has been set up to fail this year. He went down last April and needed Tommy John surgery. Matt Harvey was not allowed on a mound until 10 months after the surgery. He didn’t come back until 20 months after the surgery. The normal timetable is around 12-18 months. However, most people agree a pitcher needs 18 months. Parnell was given much less time. In fact, he was pitching at 11 months and called-up after 14 months.
At first, the narrative was he had diminished velocity, but he was learning how to pitch more effectively. Then it was that Parnell was gaining some velocity, but the results weren’t quite there. Finally, it was he was terrible. Begrudgingly, he agreed to be put on the DL. We all suspected it was to get his head and mechanics right.
When September 1st passed, Parnell was activated. He spent his time on the DL working on his mechanics with Dan Warthen, who presumably said Parnell was ready to go last night. He wasn’t. When are the Mets going to seriously look at what’s going on with Warthen and the pitching staff? If you watched last night, you knew Parnell wasn’t ready to return.
I know the Mets were cautious with Harvey, and they should’ve. He’s a tremendous asset. However, just because Parnell’s a free agent at the end of the year doesn’t mean you get to rush his rehab, and yes, it was rushed. He didn’t get his full velocity back, and he was still having trouble finding the strikezone.
Despite all of this, Parnell still works hard. He’s at his locker fielding questions after another rough outing. His only transgression was making dumb statements about the fans. If you want to boo him for that, I understand. If you’re booing the results, boo Terry Collins. Boo Warthen. Boo Sandy Alderson. They’re the ones that created the situation.
I just can’t bring myself to boo someone who is set up to fail. I may feel differently when he goes all Heath Bell and figures it out somewhere else. If he does, we’ll really know the issue is with Dan Warthen.
This may be it for Parnell. It’s a shame because I’m really curious to see what might’ve been had he had a real rehab.
If you keep playing with fire, you’re eventually going to get burned. Terry Collins’ poor managing has been masked by a seven game winning streak that came off the two worst teams in baseball. The fifth worst team in baseball would capitalize on Collins’ mistakes.
Tonight, the Mets got a dominant start from Matt Harvey. He only allowed two hits over six innings with eight strikeouts. Lucky for the Mets, the extra rest didn’t have a negative impact on Harvey. I don’t know if it was the rest or the last place Red Sox lineup. Either way, Harvey was Harvey.
Unfortunately for the Mets Terry Collins was Terry Collins. He put Juan Lagares and his .290 OBP in the leadoff spot. He was followed by Curtis Granderson and his .220 OBP against LHP. They combine to go 0-8 with two walks. The Mets would only score two runs against Henry Owens and his 4.50 ERA.
Then he brought in Logan Verrett to pitch in a second straight game. He’s never done that before, so Collins decided it was best to do it with a two game lead. However, yesterday with Verrett fully stretched out, he wouldn’t let Verrett go multiple innings. I don’t get it.
Verrett would give the lead away. His stuff looked flat, and the Red Sox teed off of him to the tune of three runs. The first run was a homer juiced by David Ortiz. The next two runs came off a homer by Jackie Bradley, Jr.
The Mets would rally off the Red Sox bullpen. It’s what they have been doing. They’ve been feasting off bad pitching to beat bad teams. The Mets loaded the bases and tied the score at three a piece on a two out bases loaded walk to Travis d’Arnaud. Rather than pinch hit Daniel Murphy, Collins let human rally killer Ruben Tejada bat. Unsurprisingly, the man who is hitting .227 in August popped out to end the rally.
The Mets two big guns out of the bullpen, Tyler Clippard and Jeurys Familia shut the door in the eighth and ninth. They kept the game tied. It didn’t matter. Because of the mismanaged tired bullpen, Carlos Torres had to come in.
He gave up a home run to the first batter he saw, Blake Swihart hit an inside the park homerun. Or did he? On a ball Lagares makes a play on last year, he went to play it off the wall. After it came off the wall, he never went to play it. Tejada and Granderson would go after it. Yoenis Cespedes never flinched in LF. By the time Tejada reached the ball, it was obvious Swihart was going to score.
Initially, I was irate with Lagares. How could he not go after it? Replays showed the ball went over the orange line in CF. It was going to be a HR anyway. The exhausted Torres, who pitched 2.1 innings last night, was letting up line drives left and right. I can’t blame him he was set up to fail. He was finally lifted with two outs in the tenth with the score 6-3. At least Eric O’Flaherty got a lefty out to end the inning.
The Mets rallied in the tenth. Tejada singled. Michael Conforto had a good AB and a well earned walk. Juan Uribe pinch hit for Lagares, and he walked to load the bases. Granderson walked giving the Mets their second run vis bases loaded walk on the night. Cespedes fm gave one a ride, but his flyball fell short. With that, the Mets luck finally ran out.
In other news, of course the fans gave David Wright a nice standing ovation. He went 2-4 with a run scored. I also noticed he has begun throwing the ball more side armed. I wonder if that has anything to do with the back injury.
Also, the Mets first two runs were with questionable calls by Tim Teufel’s at third base. The first time was Wilmer Flores [standing ovation] going through s stop sign. The second time was off of a fifth inning Michael Cuddyer single and a misplay by Rusney Castillo allowing Wright to score from first. Teufel sent Wright when most thought the stop sign should’ve been applied. To be honest, I haven’t noticed Teufel much at third this year, which usually means he’s been doing a good job.
The Mets missed an opportunity to go 7.5 games up on the Nationals. Overall, they missed a lot of opportunities tonight. It’s not the end of the world, but the Mets need to fix the bullpen and Collins in-game management. It’s going to burn them worse than it did tonight, whether it’s in September or October.
Hopefully, tomorrow will be the start of another long winning streak.
Whenever Matt Harvey starts a home game, the Mets advertise it as “Happy Harvey Day.” Jacob deGrom doesn’t receive the same type of advertising. I wonder why. I also wonder who Mets fans prefer.
I thought the best way to look at it was by attendance figures. My experience as a fan is more people come to the ballpark when the ace is on the mound. Luckily, the Mets have two. I used the attendance figures from MLB.com.
Harvey has had 13 total home starts. In these home starts, the Mets average attendance is 33,109. He has had eight weekend starts (Friday – Sunday). In this eight games, the Mets have averaged 36,627. In his five weekend starts, the Mets average 27,485.
deGrom has had 12 total home starts. In these home starts, the Mets average attendance is 32,867. He has had only five weekend starts, and in those starts the average attendance is 37,775. In the seven weekday starts, the average attendance is 26,344.
Honestly, these numbers don’t tell us anything. More fans come out for deGrom on the weekend, but Harvey does better on the weekdays. While Harvey gets the help from “Happy Harvey Day”, deGrom does get some help with things like his own t-shirt.
Overall, Mets fans love them fairly equally. I know I do. I love being able to root for them with my son as the Mets are on the upswing, and hopefully, on their way towards the World Series.
In my family, there are a number of huge Mets fans. One of them is my Uncle Pat. The two things I always remembered him saying about the Mets were:
- How beautiful the Tom Seaver Number Retirement Ceremony was; and
- How classy it was that the Mets brought back Lee Mazzilli in 1986.
I’m too young to remember the Lee Mazzilli heyday. However, I’m not too young that I don’t remember Ron Darling‘s playing days. The reason why I bring this up is because Mazzilli was traded to obtain Darling, who was a key part of the 1986 Mets.
From what I hear, fans took trading Mazzilli hard. Not only was he a homegrown Met, but he was also a local kid. It’s part of the reason Mets fans have extra love for players like Ed Kranepool. It’s why we were even more excited when Steven Matz got called-up.
Now, David Wright isn’t a local kid, but he did grow up a Mets fan. He is a homegrown Met. At times, he’s played like a superstar. In 2006. 2007, and 2008, we all thought he would bring us a World Series. It didn’t happen. The Mets then didn’t resign Jose Reyes and stopped spending money. Then the lean years came.
This year was the first year in a while there was legitimate hope. The Mets had a healthy Matt Harvey. Jacob deGrom was coming off of a Rookie of the Year season. Offensively, as usual, it all seemed to hinge on Wright and his return from a shoulder injury. It lasted all of eight games before he went down. By necessity, Wright went into the rear view mirror.
The Mets made their trades and the team took off. Wright wasn’t a part of the Mets Renaissance. We began to hear some nonsense about how Wright might upset the team chemistry. On Monday, Wright showed that notion was just noise. He’s still the leader. He’s still their best player. He’s still the fan favorite.
That’s the thing. For a whole generation of Mets fans, he’s their Tom Seaver. He’s the guy with the Hall of Fame talent you hope can lead you to the World Series. He’s also their Lee Mazzilli. He’s the lifetime Mets fan who was the best player on a bad team. It wasn’t until he was gone that the team became a contender.
However, unlike Mazzilli, Wright is back with something in the tank. Wright may not be able to play everyday right now, but he’s still their best option at 3B. I really hope the Mets make a long October run, and I hope Wright gets to be a large part of that like he was on Monday night.
As we know when David was gone, it was fun because the team was winning, but it didn’t feel 100% “Wright” because he wasn’t there. He’s back, and it feels “Wright” again. Lets Go Mets!
Eight years ago, the Mets were falling apart at the seams. We saw the team trying to restrict Pedro Martinez’s innings. They had no choice but to use Phillip Humber. Five years later, he would go on and throw a perfect game, but on that September night, he was terrible. The Mets lost the game. They would miss the playoffs that year too.
Logan Verrett pitched under similar, but not the same, circumstances. The Mets ûdetermined there was an innings limit problem and they skipped Matt Harvey‘s start. Verrett was terrific. He went eight innings allowing one run on four hits with eight strikeouts. He gave a worn out bullpen a rest. Surprisingly, Hansel Robles shut the door in the ninth securing the 5-1 win.
The Mets scored all five runs in the first three innings. Most notably, the Mets scored two runs in the second inning that set baseball back about a 100 years. Wilmer Flores [standing ovation] was hit by a pitch, and then Michael Conforto singled. With Flores going first to third, Carlos Gonzalez made a throwing error. The ball didn’t get far away enough for Flores to score, but it permitted Conforto to go to second. I still can’t believe what happened next.
With every Mets fan hoping Anthony Recker would luck into an RBI, David Hale made sure Recker wouldn’t be a factor. On back-to-back pitches, he threw a wild pitch allowing Flores and Conforto to score. I was dumbfounded. After the baseball we saw this weekend, so was Keith Hernandez. He was actively calling for no more expansion because the plays and players he saw this weekend was terrible.
He wasn’t wrong. I’m glad the Mets are out of Colorado, and I’m glad they got the sweep. This weekend was like making sausage. You enjoyed the results, but you didn’t necessarily enjoy watching how it got done.
There’s a lot more baseball left. I plan on enjoying the remaining games during a pennant race.
As the numbers suggest, the Mets have a good chance to win the division. However, that is predicated on the Mets maintaining the status quo. That officially goes out the door when the Mets skip Matt Harvey‘s start today.
We all know with Harvey, and Harvey alone, there is an innings limits issue. As per my estimates, Harvey was going to throw approximately 208 innings. Skipping one start will bring him down to 201.1. It seems like this will be the only start the Mets skip because they intend on using a six man rotation when Steven Matz returns. It appears that Matz’s first start back with the Mets will be September 1st or soon thereafter.
If that’s the case, here is when Harvey will pitch for the rest of the year (assuming a six man rotation from September 1st until the end of the year):
- 8/28 vs. Red Sox
- 9/4 at Marlins
- 9/10 at Braves
- 9/16 vs. Marlins
- 9/23 vs. Braves
- 9/30 vs. Phillies
If the Mets didn’t switch to a six man rotation, guess how many starts Harvey had left? Seven. Therefore, Harvey will only pitch in one less game. He’s still going to go over his innings limit as he will finish around 195 innings. He’s pitching against much weaker opponents in the stretch drive than he would have in a five man rotation. Speaking of which, this is the stretch drive. The time to do this has passed.
The other problem is that pitchers pitch worse in a six man rotation than in a five man rotation. Furthermore, if the Mets make the playoffs, they’ll likely only go with four starters. This means you want to go from giving your pitchers a month of extra rest and changing their routines to quickly shifting back and getting them less rest than normal.
I don’t have a study that supports this, but I would assume this type of treatment is also dangerous to a pitcher’s arm health. It would then appear the Mets are tempting fate with their pitchers’ health. I hope my assumption is wrong and this won’t be the case.
For the life of me, I don’t know why the Mets are doing this now and not earlier in the year. I just hope this won’t give the Nationals an opportunity to win the division.