Domestic Violence Allegations Against Omar Vizquel Should Have Same Impact On Barry Bonds In Hall Of Fame Voting
When it comes to Omar Vizquel‘s Hall of Fame case, it’s predicated more on opinion than anything substantive. Essentially, some people liked his defense, so they want to vote for him.
It took Vizquel 24 years to accumulate 45.6 WAR. That 45.6 number is well below the 67.5 which is the average from Hall of Famers at that position. When you realize he’s averaged less than 2.0 WAR per season, you really have to wonder where the love for him is deriving.
Sure, he won 11 Gold Gloves, but he was nowhere near the defender or player Mark Belanger was, and Belanger is still on the outside looking in for Hall of Fame voting. Also, considering Keith Hernandez is on the outside looking in, it’s not like winning 10+ Gold Gloves guarantees entry.
Then, we have the character clause issue.
In a report by Katie Strang and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic, Vizquel was accused of repeated acts of domestic violence by his wife Bianca during their divorce proceedings. There were also multiple police investigations.
It should be noted Vizquel denies the allegations. That said, many see that as a reason to not vote for Vizquel, which is quite understandable.
What is curious is this is seen by many as disqualifying for Vizquel but not Barry Bonds. Most likely, that’s because the accusations against Bonds is well over 25 years ago.
When Bonds was divorcing his first wife, she testified, “Barry was this big man who loved me one minute and the next minute was beating me up, and I didn’t know what to do.” (Ken Hoover, SF Gate).
In the divorce proceedings, she talked about being “habitually beaten” over the course of their six year marriage. Like with Vizquel, there were police reports. The incidents purportedly included getting “pushed to the ground and kicked while eight months pregnant.”
Like Vizquel, Bonds denied the allegations. However, as noted, unlike Vizquel, this isn’t an issue with Bonds’ candidacy.
This isn’t an isolated instance either for Bonds. During BALCO, it was discovered Bonds was verbally (but not physically) abusive and controlling of mistress Kimberely Bell. Voicemails included threats of mutilation and beheadings.
Overall, Bonds has more allegations and testimony against him than Vizquel. There are also voicemails. However, it’s not getting the same attention or publicity.
If you believe the accusations disqualify Vizquel, it should also disqualify Bonds. While Bonds’ 762 homers may have people overlook his PED usage, it shouldn’t also have voters look past his violence towards women. It’s the same with Vizquel and his 11 Gold Gloves.
Ultimately, if you don’t believe Vizquel should be inducted into the Hall of Fame due to the domestic violence allegations, you should also believe it serves as a barrier to Bonds’ induction.
The best comp to Vizquel is Hall of Famer Ozzie Smith, a lot of similarities to their game on both sides of the ball.
Smith was the grounder breaker, hence landed in the Hall.
Belangee was a product of the times. One way shortstop, nothing flashy, very reliable, and no bat.
There’s case to be made for Vizquel on the basis of defense, SB’s and hits. But his lack of power in contrast to the shortstops of his era, is glaring. Career .352 slugging is well short. Domestic abuse is also serious incursion that should seal him out of hall under today’s standards.. There are probably a bunch of Hall of Famers who were also domestic abusers back in the day that went under the radar or was kept hush, hush.
As for Bonds, without even considering his reported domestic abuse, I believe his massive steroid use is disqualifer. There’s a case to be made that he already had Hall of Fame career before he opted to cheat.
Vizquel just wasn’t on par with Smith or Belanger defensively. Honestly, he’s not even close.
Not even close to Belanger??? Wtff? Hahahaha that’s the joke of the decade, Vizquel is simply the best defensive shortstop of ALL times, it’s not his fault that he played in the steroids era, we can argue about his numbers all you want, if Ozzie Smith (who was vastly inferior with the bat than Vizquel) is a first ballot HOF, then he should be a HOF as well, please stop with this nonsense against a guy who was simply the most elegant, spectacular and most sure handed SS of all times
Vizquel was nowhere close to being the best defensive SS of all-time, and Ozzie Smith had a better OPS+
It’s your opinion sir and I respect it but facts are facts, Ozzie Smith played his whole life in turf which nobody seems to remember, I guess the back flips were very impresive ??♂️ and regarding Belanger, that was just a travesty, he was a fine defensive short stop but comparing him to any of the greats is just nonsense, Belanger is not even top 10 defensive…
As per the numbers of Ozzie and Vizquel, actually defensively they are very similar, some has Ozzie on the edge some has Vizquel, offensively there is no question Vizquel was vastly superior than Ozzie, ok OPS+ has Ozzie I could name you a dozen others were Vizquel was far better, just my opinion, I think this guy is getting so much negative press for no reason whatsoever, there are plenty of HOF members with less credentials than Vizquel, so what is the problem with him?, it seems personal to me ??♂️
By defensive stats, Smith is by far the best all-time with Belanger second.
Vizquel isn’t close to the Hall of Fame
Sure buddy ??
Facts are facts
Sure buddy whatever you say ??♂️
It’s not just what I say. It’s what the facts and stats say
You are a little stubborn aren’t you? ?? Ok let’s talk stats and facts as you call it.
Ozzie played 19 seasons, now, in his first 19 seasons Vizquel has more hits, more runs, more RBI, more 2B, more 3B, more HR, better OBP, BA, SLG, OPS, more total bases, etc, and your ONLY argument is better OPS+, so according to your logic, Vizquel’s numbers were better than Ozzie’s (offensively) in ALMOST every stat, BUT, because Ozzie has more WAR and a better OPS+ he is not, I’m sorry but that is something that only you can understand and argue, is not even funny, NOW, if you have a personal issue with the guy for any reason that’s fine, but if you didn’t see him play as apparently you didn’t, much less did you see play Belanger and probably didn’t see Ozzie either, so it seems to me that you are making an argument from your numbers in your computer and have not take into consideration that for example they played in very different eras, just to give you such an example, in 1985 Ozzie was #2 on the MVP voting with numbers that wouldn’t get him in the top 20 in the steroids era, in 1999 Vizquel was #16 in the MVP voting with vastly superior offensive numbers than the ones that Ozzie had in 1985, so go figures ??♂️, and regarding Belanger, that is not even worth discussing, you saying that Belanger is in the same level of any of the really great SS of all time just show plain ignorance from your part, he was a very good defensive SS, in his time there were no other clearly defensive choices for GG, no clear successor for Aparicio, but that was ALL he was, nothing more nothing less, obviously I don’t know you and I honestly respect your opinion regardless if I agree with it or not, you should learn to do the same instead of assuming that your opinion is the only one that is valid based only on numbers.
The only argument here for me is, if Ozzie who was “probably” the greatest defensive SS and an average hitter at best was first ballot HOF, Vizquel, who is near the same level on defense and was vastly superior offensively, should be in there as well, if players like Mazeroski, Baines, Rizutto, etc are in the HOF, of course Vizquel should be as well
Ozzie Smith – 76.9 WAR, 90 wRC+, 44.2 Defensive WAR (best all-time)
Omar Vizquel – 45.6 WAR,83 wRC+, 29.5 Defensive WAR, 24 seasons
Oh, and just to round it out
Mark Belanger – 39.5 Defensive WAR (2nd best all-time)
Just because your opinions don’t agree with the facts doesn’t mean the facts are wrong.
Also, I saw Ozzie and Vizquel play. Vizquel doesn’t belong to be in the same sentence as Ozzie as a player.
Sure buddy, your “facts” in this response are that Ozzie has 3 stats better than Vizquel, defensive metrics are a very long and complicated issue, those opinions are like the ass, everyone has one, so as per your logic, only the stats that Ozzie was better are important, the other 20 stats where Vizquel was better are meaningless, it is a joke, if I say that Vizquel had better BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, then you said Ozzie had better OPS+, so that is 4 stats against one, and for you, that makes Ozzie a better batter than Vizquel, which is just plain ignorant, we can keep arguing forever on this, it is not my opinion it’s facts, the one that seems to not agree with the facts is you, it is not my fault, your responses look like excuses, if I say Vizquel has the best fielding % of all time, more double plays or whatever defensive metric, then you said that those are less important or meaningless, again, I respect your opinion, but don’t give me that facts crap, the guy has the numbers that’s it and THAT is a fact ??♂️
And again, if Mazeroski, Baines, Rizutto, Travis Jackson, Hughie Jennings, Pee Wee Reese, etc etc etc etc are in the HOF, then Vizquel should be as well
No, Vizquel doesn’t have the numbers, and it’s really not close. He’s far from a Hall of Famer and nowhere near the same category as Smith.
He’s simply not.
You can try to argue your way around it by presenting unadjusted stats for the era, but they only present an incomplete and flawed picture.
And as an aside, using players who probably don’t belong in the Hall as evidence Vizquel belongs, you might as well then say players like Rafael Furcal belong.
Don’t treat the mistakes like the standard.
Whatever, when somebody is against something without any reason there is no point in arguing, be happy, if you think Vizquel was a weak SS, the worst of all times then be my guest, nothing will change your mind, is super obvious that you have something personal against the guy and giving all kinds of nonsense arguments, for me, he was the best defensive SS and he deserves to be in the HOF, if you think he is not that’s fine too, I respect your opinion but I couldn’t care less about it and keep discussing over and over again the same BS is really pointless
You can dismiss Vizquel falling far short of the Hall of Fame by any objective criteria by saying its my having something personal against him all you want.
It still won’t improve his career or numbers to make it Hall of Fame worthy.
Whatever you say buddy ??♂️
It’s not what I saw. It’s what every objective measure says
Sure buddy ??♂️
I’m sure
Whatever buddy ??
Sorry you’re having difficulty here
?? I’m actually enjoying making you mad to the point that you respond to everything I said ??, get over it man, let it go ??
Hate to tell you this, but I’m not remotely mad about needing to correct you every time you feel the need to come back and take the incorrect position Vizquel was anything more than a good little player.
???? This is just hilarious, keep it up buddy, I can do this forever ????
I encourage you to keep coming back to see why Vizquel should not be in the Hall of Fame
???? Ok
Glad I can be of service
Glad to be of service
?? Ok
You’re welcome
?? I’m not thanking you for anything but Ok ??♂️??
You probably should for educating youb
?? educating me ??, this is even funnier than all your previous responses ??
Well, you were wrong, and I provided you with the correct information
?? Whatever
Your replies are growing as redundant as Vizquel’s low vote totals
?? because you are SO original and knowledgeable ??, you are the one that keeps answering buddy, just give it a rest, I couldn’t care less if Vizquel enters or not the HOF, I’m a baseball fan and was just giving an opinion, that’s ALL, it’s not my fault that you were so offended by it and took it so personal as if YOU saying that Vizquel or ANY other player is worthy or not to the HOF would make any difference, you are a blogger and express opinions, that’s it, stop pretending you are some kind of baseball expert because you watch statistics in “baseball reference”, YOU ARE NOT.
Is because of idiots like yourself that baseball is losing the beauty that once had.
You keep answering because you want to have the last word like a child, I was just having fun with your tantrums that’s it, but if you want to keep this forever, be my guest, I will keep answering you forever, just to annoy you
Cheers.
It’s humorous you attack me for always wanting the last word when you keep replying and then say you will keep answering.
In essence, you’re insisting that you’ll continue in perpetuity until I stop to ensure you have the last word.
I think that basically colors all of your comments thus far.
Whatever man, it’s your blog, if it makes you so happy to have the last word, be my guest ??♂️
You just replied again