menu

Sandy Alderson Back To Fix What Brodie Van Wagenen Did To His Team

According to reports, Steve Cohen is bringing Sandy Anderson back to the Mets as an advisor, and he is planning on finding a replacement for Brodie Van Wagenen. Both are excellent and needed decisions.

When it comes to Van Wagenen, it’s difficult to quantify exactly how much damage he has done to the well built and talented Mets organization gift wrapped to him from Alderson. Essentially, all that Alderson built needs to be rebuilt.

Van Wagenen was given a starting staff comprised of Jacob deGrom, Noah Syndergaard, Zack Wheeler, and Steven Matz. Behind them were well regarded prospects in Justin Dunn, Anthony Kay, and Simeon Woods Richardson.

The Mets rotation over the final week of the 2020 season will be deGrom, Rick Porcello, maybe Matz, and who knows what else?

The position player core was remarkably cheap and talented. There was Michael Conforto, Brandon Nimmo, Pete Alonso, Jeff McNeil, Dominic Smith, and Amed Rosario. Behind them was Andres Gimenez and Jarred Kelenic.

Sure, there were some bad contracts, but they were short term in nature, and they were not going to serve as an impediment to either building on or retaining this core.

For example, the Jay Bruce and Yoenis Cespedes contacts were set to expire after this season. That coincided perfectly with having to have the money to re-sign deGrom and to have extension talks with Conforto, Matz, and Syndergaard.

Instead, the Mets no longer have Kelenic giving them a buffet against losing one of Conforto or Nimmo. They also have Robinson Cano‘s onerous contract on the books which already served as an impediment to re-signing Wheeler.

That’s nothing to say of the quality prospect purge in the same of finding a late inning defensive replacement in center for a team who already had Juan Lagares and adding J.D. Davis to a team already overstocked in 1B/DH players.

Couple this with the Mets getting rid of Wilmer Flores for nothing only for him to be more productive than anyone Van Wagenen brought into the organization and signing Jed Lowrie for $20 million to get eight pinch hitting attempts, and the Van Wagenen stint as GM has been an unmitigated disaster.

If you want to point to Van Wagenen’s drafts as a positive, you should. However, in doing that, remember, that was a scouting group built by Alderson and Omar Minaya. The Mets will be keeping both advisors.

When you take everything into account, Alderson built the Mets to be a competitive team in 2019 and 2020. With any luck, he had a deep farm system to make the types of trades he made in 2015 to help get the team over the top.

The real window for this Mets team was supposed to open in 2021. Given the talent on the Major League roster and in the farm system, it promised to be a 1980s like run.

Instead, Alderson is back to figure out how yo fix this mess. Fortunately for him, he won’t have Van Wagenen or Jeff Wilpon standing in his way. Instead, he will have an owner with deep pockets who intends to let smart baseball people like Alderson do their jobs.

20 thoughts on “Sandy Alderson Back To Fix What Brodie Van Wagenen Did To His Team”

  1. LongTimeFan1 says:

    Terrible idea bringing Sandy Alderson back.. Couldn’t stand his bull shitting,, his ridiculous ideas at the plate that stifled offensive development, and for the most part, a bad record at the helm with a few exceptions over his GM and team leading career.

    Bad mistake too letting Brodie go if that indeed happens.. I have my doubts it does. I love what he did to elevate player and team culture and structure, develop hitters, standardize majors and minors, hire proven executives, think outside the box, embrace and expand analytics, draft high quality youngsters, including first round talent in other rounds, and do so very shrewdly to sign these players.. I don’t agree with some of his trade choices/decision, but overall, I like what he’s doing.

    What he now needs is Cohen’s checkbook to sign Bauer, Realmutto, Stroman, extend Conforto. and lock up some arb eligible, and perhaps some pre arb eligible players.. Bring back Justin Wilson, Jason Shreve, trade Gsellman, Matz, Sewald, Zamora, perhaps Rosario and others for young arms and athletic outfielders.

    If Rosario isn’t traded, he should work this offseason on his stride length which has shortened, slowing him, and also be converted to infield – outfield super utility.

    1. Mets Daddy says:

      Brodie Van Wagenen accomplished nothing, and he did nothing to develop players.

      1. LongTimeFan1 says:

        That’s not accurate.

        In fact, just a few days ago, one of the players was saying how much better it is developing as hitter under the Brodie regime, rather than the restriction of Alderson. who wanted things done a certain way, stifling growth, impacting player strengths. I think it was one of Dom, Nimmo, or Conforto who said it.

        1. metsdaddy says:

          They can say what they want, but it’s simly not true.

  2. oldbackstop says:

    LTF, agreed. Brodie took the worst offensive team in baseball and turned it into the team with the highest OBP and BA in baseball.

    We had the second best record in the NL in the second half last year after first half pitching injuries. He has had bad luck with pitching or he would have had back to back playoff appearances.

    Our host here has a point with this bitches about the Wilpon’s budgets, but magical thing doesn’t land the Realmutos and Machados and Harpers and Wheelers of the world. The owners said no and it is there money and their team. MetsDaddy at one point said Brodie should have “argued better.” Lol….

    Therefore, told to win now, he had to roll the dice. It would have been great to have seven proven major league starters in their prime….But the budget he was given for starting pitching behind Jake was about half of one year of Wheeler.

    Given his budget constraints, he went and scrambled and roll the dice on still young guys with past success or future promise he could get his hands on….Diaz, Porcello, Betances, Wacha, JD. Some didn’t work out, at least yet, but he was out there trying.

    He also brought existing youngsters we successfully to Queens in just this 18 month period…..Gimenez, Alonso, Dom, Guillorme, Peterson.

    Let’s talk the prospect trades

    MetsDaddy loves the young boys, but….have any kids we traded away become plus major leaguers yet? He rails about “starting pitching depth”? Who is he thinking of? Maybe….Justin Dunn? But as I previously laid out, his 3-1 record in nine starts consist of three wins against the worst team in the American League, Texas. In his two starts against strong lineups he has given up nine earned runs in seven innings.

    He mentions Bautista….nine innings this year and on the IR. Anthony Kay? Not a bad reliever this year (aside from 5 earned runs in 0.2 innings against us) but his 5.14 ERA consists of 21 innings in 16 outings…..he was used as a 2020 version of a LOOGY….and the future of those guys in a year with standard rosters is questionable. Kay, Dunn and Bautista aren’t an upgrade over Wacha, Shreve, Wilson, Ramirez. Brodie’s prospect trades did not hurt our 2020 pitching by as much a one run.

    Kelenic is the point of pain and perhaps it will be. Nobody who hasn’t played in the majors can be written in as a an All Star, of course, and Kelenic had 83 at bats in AA (.253 BA) and none above that level. Maybe his body won’t stand up to a major league season. Maybe he’ll get a major injury. Maybe he’ll be a partier or be distracted by the women at The Show or slap around his wife or piss hot and be suspended. But the new Mets reality is, SMALL budget teams need those six years of cheap production. We want a youg star, we can probably go take that teams bad contracts and snap them up. Then release the bad contracts or trade them for nothing and pay the bill anyway. Think Matt Kemp and the Dodgers.

    We don’t need to clutch our beads about farmers anymore MD.. We are freaking Microsoft. Our problem will be seducing FAs, talking owners into trades, and structuring our deals efficiently. And that’s Brodie.

    I wouldn’t leave him as King….Omar, Alderson…..Cohen can hire the Star Chamber and probably will. But more than any MLB owner since Steinbrenner, he will run the show.

    I hope they keep Brodie in a more limited role. Rojas too, but not as skip in the dugout.

    The bottom line is this. He was one average year away from the playoffs in this crazy sprint. If Alonso OR Thor OR Stroman OR Yo-C OR Matz had palyed at their career best season rate….just ONE of them, we would have been in the NL East 2 slot with ease. He wasn’t given the budget to build redundancy.

    I think he deserves another year.
    .

    1. Mets Daddy says:

      I guess we don’t mention the players who are producing were mostly brought to the Mets organization by Alderson, and the ones who haven’t are mostly BVW’s guys.

      1. oldbackstop says:

        Yes, Brodie’s people were able to take guys like Peterson who was 7-10 in A ball and Dom was languishing and Alonso and the rest.
        ……but of course, you believe all farmers will be major league stars if you just water them and put them in the sun….

        1. metsdaddy says:

          Dom was sick, and Peterson wasn’t languishing, but please continue with the falsehoods.

    2. LongTimeFan1 says:

      Old Backstop, I do too. And Brodie and Cohen have been talking. for some time now. I say to Cohen – Open the checkbook and evaluate Brodie after 2021. Mets were 10 games over last year in Brodie’s first full season. 2020 is just incredibly weird. One full season plus 60 games for a GM, is far from enough.

      Kelenic has the tools, drive and physique to be a star, but the sting of trading him feels much less to me with Diaz and Cano performing well like expected and Brodie drafting fine CF talent. I wasn’t happy about losing SWR and Blake Taylor in other trades, but I don’t miss Bautista, Kay and Dunn.

      1. Oldbackstop says:

        And, by the way, people yammering asking who Brodie brought in forget he has been here 18 months on a limited budget. He drafted superbly by all accounts. In 4-6 years look at the major league roster. Alderson and Omar have been here how many years? 18 months into their reign were people howling about their player development?

        1. metsdaddy says:

          I guess we ignore all the talent that was here in the majors and minors and how much BVW traded away for very little return

          1. Oldbackstop says:

            Stop talking like a pouty child.

            Who did he trade away that would be in the dugout tonight?

            His “very little return” includes Cano, Castro, Diaz, JD, Frazier, Chirizziwhatever. That might be four of the eight batters and two relievers.

            And who did he give up of consequence? Alex Escobar. No, Preston Wilson. Wait, Lastings Milledge. No…. the other 5 tool next coming of Willie Mays….Kelenic. he has 83 at bats above A ball . We’ll see.

          2. metsdaddy says:

            It’s fun playing the bring up the busts from prior regimes while ignoring the immense access Alderson’s regime had.

            Certainly, Lastings Milledge shows Michael Conforto, Brandon Nimmo, and Jarred Kelenic were all busts and should have been moved in trades the rest of baseball mocked.

            Oh, and since we’re playing this game, since J.J. Putz was a Mariners closer who was a bust with the Mets, does that also de facto mean Edwin Diaz is a bust?

  3. Oldbackstop says:

    Alderson vs. Brodie? MD….assuming you mean success not access re: Sandy. Let’s compare. Tell me how Sandy looked 200 games in? Alderson took over a 79 win team with an 81 win Pythagorean. He inherited a 27 year old David Wright and a 27 year old Jose Reyes and a lot of other talent…like Carlos Beltran. CYA level talents Johan Santana and RA Dickey. The farm had Wilmer, Familia…oh yeah, Justin Turner was there.

    Sandy’s teams then won 74, 77, 74 and 79. Would he have a third year in today’s world? A 4th? Where was he 200 games in?

    Brodie took over a 77 win team and improved it by 9 wins to 86. Uf you can even count this year’s mess, Brodie has lost his 2, 3, 4 starting pitchers through no fault of his. How do the 69 or 86 Mets do with that? How do the 86 Mets do without Darling, Ojeda and Fernandez?

    You say he “got rid of starting pitcher depth.” Explain who? Is Justin Dunn, Bautista, etc. Going to do any better than Peterson and Porcello in 2020? Don’t be absurd.

    Your problem is. You aren’t a Mets fan. You are a Rumble Ponies fan. You mourn every kid that leaves. Hey, updates us on the three mooks we dumped for JD. How are they doing? And most AAA players will not be above replacement MLB players. Simple statistical fact.

    1. metsdaddy says:

      Sandy had no money to spend, and he had a farm to rebuild.

      BVW had significantly more money to spend and an embarrassment of riches when it came to young talent from his predecessor.

      BVW squandered it all

      1. Oldbackstop says:

        Lol….Who? Who did he “squander”? If the Mets had traded an 8th grade kickball all star, you would have been trending your clothes like you list a child.

        He brought in a ton of major league talent. He gave away some dubious prospects.

        And none of it matters. We are rich. We can buy and sell talent in its prime. The minor leagues are over. Your world is so 2005….

        1. metsdaddy says:

          I remember you spewing the same false nonsense when I objected to the Mets trading Blake Taylor for Jake Marisnick

          1. Oldbackstop says:

            Blake Taylor is a one inning LOOGY. They will be obsolete with regular rosters and the three batter minimum. He is 25 years old and has 19 MLB innings. No great loss.

          2. metsdaddy says:

            Oh, so now we’re lying about what Blake Taylor is, what he’s done, and what Jake Marisnick has done.

          3. Oldbackstop says:

            Lies? In Taylor’s last 11 appearances for the Stros he has totalled 8.0 innings. He’s a lefty and he is being used disproportionately against lefties, in one or two batter outings. Is that the definition of a LOOGY? Does that role have a future in MLB?

            Marisnick is a great glove in center and tore the cover off the ball in his small sample. I’d give him a look next year if we don’t sign Mantle with DiMaggio as back up.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *